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Thoughts About Winging Senior Singles by Sam Folks

I was forwarded this from The Drunken Russian. It is written by a PUA named Sleazy who posts over on mASF. This article was originally sent to Cliff's List, the same guy that got me my first big boost in readership (Thanks to MetalHaze). Anyhow, here is what Sleazy sent to Cliff:

One of the most prevalent concepts within the seduction community is that you should not go out alone, but instead enlist the services of a "wing man," a guy that assists you in your attempts at seducing senior women. According to the theory, you walk up to a girl and deliver your lines, and your wingman comes in to give you props and make you look better in front of the girl. It is also often said that a wingman is required if you want to pull a girl that is out with a girlfriend. As can often be observed, beautiful senior women frequently come in tow with less good-looking friends. Your dating wingman can then take care of that problem and "take one for the team."

For plenty of reasons, however, life is better without a wingman. In the following, I will discuss some problems.

"I'm sorry, I can't leave my friends."

Girls use a line like this, not because they can't leave their friends, but simply because they are not interested. I'm sorry to break the news to you, but a girl making such excuses simply wants to let you down softly. The average guy, however, in order to protect his fragile ego, might think instead, "Now if I only had somebody with me who could entertain her friends, then I would get her." But do you honestly think she would say the same to George Clooney or Brad Pitt ? "Sorry, Brad, I'd love it if you massaged my back, but I've got to take care of my friends. But give me your number instead." Life doesn't really work this way.

As I got better and better at the game, I heard fewer and fewer excuses. One of the most interesting instances was when I met a girl who claimed that she could not leave with me because one of her friends was staying at her place. In this case, it was a genuine problem that she needed to get solved. I simply asked her whether she was with her. Since she was, I told her to give her the key. She did and then we left. Within ten minutes, we were on the way back to my flat.

The other reason that is often cited as an advantage of going out with a wingman is that he can "take one for the team," meaning that you get the more attractive girl while he does you a favor by engaging the other one. In all seriousness, it takes someone with rather low standards or downright masochistic tendencies to be willing to engage in such behavior. If this happens, then you could have gotten the hotter girl anyway. "Cock blocking" only goes so far, and plenty of girls will gladly leave their girlfriends if they really want to hook up with you.


Problem Cases

Now that the main justifications for enduring the presence of wingmen have been dealt with, let's consider why else they are much more of a liability than anything else. As I have found, theory clashes with practice more often than not.

I almost always go out alone, and part of the reason for my rapid development and my ability to seduce senior women within time spans that are nearly unheard of in the seduction community ... often less than ten minutes from meet to sex ... was my reliance on my own abilities. I occasionally attempted picking up girls together with friends, and it was not always a failure,  but I always felt less efficient. Matters of efficiency aside, here are some problems which occur over and over, and which will only hold you back.

Problem Case 1: Your Wingman's Game Is Worse Than Yours

If you escalate on one girl and your wing on the other, there will be a point where the girl checks up on her friend. For instance, if she is already rubbing your crotch and begging for it while your wing is playing "fuck, marry, kill" with the other girl, she will most often just leave. The reasons are manifold, and they don't really matter, but let's just list two: She could think that her friend doesn't like your wing (because she is not physically engaging him), or she may feel like a "slut" for making out with you so quickly while her girlfriend is still reserved. On your own, you would not have had any problem at all. Her friend would realize your girl likes you and leave, or get told to leave. In the end, it's all the same because you will get laid either way.

On a side note, a similar problem occurs if you attempt to pull two girls on your own and you escalate too quickly on one of them. She checks up on her friend, and because she realizes that she is less turned on or less willing to play, your threesome will only take place in your head.

Problem Case 2: Your Wingman Looks Better Than You

One of my friends in London has the looks of a male model and a sense of style that is almost eerie. In fact, these days he works as a fashion consultant. When I am out with him and merely talking to a girl that is clearly interested in me, touching me all over and giggling at my dumbest jokes, he simply has to roll up, throw his arm around my shoulder, put on his Tom Cruise smile and chat with me for a bit, and within seconds that older girl will be all over him.

In the best possible case she will ask me, "Oh my God, who is this guy ?" and in the worst she will stretch out her hand and introduce herself or just hug him, while I will be quickly forgotten. After all, looks do matter, and if your task is to compete with a guy that looks like a Greek god, the best game in the world won't help you. His motives were honest, and we are still very good friends. I mean, what is he supposed to do if he is just that good looking ?

On the plus side, he motivated me to figure out how to escalate as quickly as possible. Once I am making out with a girl, his charms are far less dangerous to my game. Yet, if you go out with a guy against whom you pale in comparison, you might as well just stay at home.

Problem Case 3: Your Wingman Doesn't Look Good

This is probably a much bigger issue for people who are willing to meet up with "wings" from the Internet. The few times I have tried when I was starting out in the game, I was often more than slightly shocked at some people's sense of fashion.

So, what happens if you have learned your lesson and improved your appearance as far as you could ... and go out with a guy who is wearing clothes that don't suit him at all ? He will make you look like a dork. You become guilty by association. It is that simple. The only way to turn this to your advantage is if he approaches a group of senior girls and you come in while they don't realize that he is with you. This is more of a theoretical case, though, because if this is an idea you want to play around with, you can just wait for any dork to approach a group of girls and then take over the group.

Problem case 4: Attempting to Steal Sets

Especially among less advanced members of the community, there seems to be a tendency for people just to want to leech off of you. They are hoping you are going to approach groups of girls so that they can sweep in when they see an opening. Because they lack calibration, they will often ruin the chance for you as well. If someone does something like that to you even once, your best bet is to just cut them off. Delete their number from your phone.

Admittedly, some of those problem cases can be dealt with preemptively by agreeing on a number of rules. But even if you do that, you still have much less of an advantage than if you are out alone. Even worse, once you have reached a certain level of skill, a dating wingman can contribute absolutely nothing to your game.

For the more advanced people, I would like to point out some further issues.

Wingmen Limit Your Flexibility

The problem of going out with groups is that you invariably settle for the lowest common denominator. Eventually you go to a place that none of you really likes, but that everybody "kind of agrees with." On a lesser scale, this problem also haunts you when going out with a dating wingman, and even if you do go to the place you wanted to go to, after one hour you may find that there is no point in staying in the venue. He may think otherwise.

Often the Wingman is Another Person to Take Care Of

With the exception of the most advanced guys, it generally seems to be the case that you have to take care of your wingman in some respect. Some always follow you around asking for advice. Some actually never stray far from you and hover around you to find out "what you are doing" when you are talking to a girl. Heck, they may even find it important to tell you that they are going to get a drink instead of just getting one. When it comes to clubs, most people simply act somewhat insecure, afraid of being left alone.

They Are of No Help Once You Have Broken the Ice

How good is a wingman once the girl has taken an interest in you? I would wager that his existence is completely irrelevant. Your girl won't even notice him. However, there are still plenty of guys around that think they can "assist" you. I have little doubt that some indeed think they help you by joining the conversation. What they in fact do, though, is disturb the dynamics between you and the senior girl. In the worst possible case, the girl may be concerned that you have left your friend behind and think you are a not a loyal person. As a "lone wolf," you won't face any of those problems.

"Bros Before Hos"

This is probably the most annoying concept in the whole seduction community. "Bros before hos" is apparently nothing more than the weak attempt of weaker men to ensure they get some, and not a "code of honor" as is so often claimed. A guy insisting on it is as bad as the cock blocking friend of the girl you are talking to.

Here is why it can't work in practice: say you go out with two or three other guys, and one of them is simply less competent or has a mediocre presence. All the others could leave with their girls, but won't because they want to "help a brother out." Unfortunately, the window of opportunity in which you can leave with a girl invariably gets smaller, and it's fairly common that if you are out with someone that doesn't pull his own weight, then you will all leave empty-handed.


After having discussed a variety of problems that come from going out with wingmen, the question arises: why not simply go out alone? For me, it is indeed the most plausible option, and my preferred modus operandi. Many guys are afraid to do so, but apparently for the reason that they are insecure.

Some fear that you won't get into clubs when you are on your own, but the exact opposite is true. In fact, in the trendiest places it is often easier to get in alone, because if you show up with other people and only one doesn't meet with the approval of the doorman, then all of you will get turned down. Once you are inside the club, girls will not think you are weird when you tell them that you areon your own. More often than not, they will be intrigued and tell you that they wish they had the courage to go out alone as well.

Lastly, there is the wildly held belief that you need "social proof" in a club, and that you will simply look weird if you are alone. Going out alone never prevented me from getting laid. Further, not once has anybody insinuated it was weird for me to be out on my own, and with regards to "social proof," all I can say is that this concept is at the very least vastly overrated if not completely bogus. Nobody is watching you in the club because everybody is too concerned with themselves. Thus, if you want to get to the next level in your development, you may start to go out alone. It will benefit you in ways you won't imagine.

I'm sure that many of you know that I hate winging in general. I've always been one of the guys writing about how many problems winging causes. I believe that I first touched on it in the last edition of Assanova's Simplicity. Now here are a few of my comments:

Problem 1

I'm willing to go out with a guy who doesn't have game, but he only gets a very limited amount of time to boost his game before I stop bringing him out with me to pick up senior women. However, at the same time, it's not always about senior women when I go out. If the guy's a friend, then he's a friend, and I won't completely ignore him. I'll still invite him out just to have a good time if I actually like hanging around him otherwise.

Problem 2

I don't have this problem. I think I've always been the guy that girls would go after when they ditched my friends. If you've read my stories, then you know that a lot of my wings complained about me always being the guy to get the girl simply because I looked better or was more charismatic. I think this is a stupid reason not to go out with a wing.

If a guy looks better than you, then use it as motivation to get your looks together. When I first met Hollywood, he looked better than me. In fact, he got most of the girls. However, by the time we had moved in together on the OSU main campus, we basically switched roles. I stepped up my game, ditched the thug image, gained weight, and just got my looks together. It ended up benefiting both of us.

Problem 3

I will not hang around unattractive guys for long. Like game, he only has a limited amount of time to get his shit together. As I've stated before, ugly wingmen can kill your game. If I'm talking to a ten, and her friend sees that my wing is ugly, she's going to pull her friend away in an attempt not to get stuck with the ugly guy. Either that, or the two girls will cockblock each other while trying to claim me.

Problem 4

This use to happen ALL THE TIME in seduction lairs and is a big reason why I stopped hanging around lair guys. However, what use to piss me off, is that sometimes we'd be hanging out as a group, and a girl would be selecting me, at which point, guys would get pissed off simply because the girl wasn't attracted to him and wanted me instead. That's not called stealing a set, it's called the girl is choosing her best option.

The Rest

I have one wingman that I go out with, and we communicate a lot.  We have our own personal set of rules. For one, we don't go into each other's sets unless introduced. If one guy has a girl ready to leave and fuck, the wing just lets them leave alone. And if we leave as a group, unless a friend is choosing up on the wing, the wing is to play a supporting role and just keep everyone entertained.

Winging sucks with the wrong guy, but if you can find one guy that you're on the same page with, winging can be a blast. We constantly critique each other, entertain each other via joking around, and talk to each other in set via text message. It's a lot of work, but winging really can be a blessing if you work together and learn to communicate (as long as you have just ONE wing, and aren't a traveling sausage pack).